In honor of Nora Ephron’s birthday, we interviewed author Ilana Kaplan on her new Nora Ephron book Nora Ephron at the Movies: A Visual Celebration of the Writer and Director with an intro by the wonderful

And what would a birthday post be without sharing one of our favorite pieces of writing from Nora: her iconic What I’ll Miss, What I Won’t Miss list (which was one of our big inspirations for The Love/Hate List).

Interview with Ilana Kaplan on her book ‘Nora Ephron at the Movies’.

How did you get into Nora? Why Nora?

I got into Nora in the way many millennials likely did — through a rom-com marathon on TBS or TNT. That day, I happened upon You've Got Mail and it was all over for me. I was drawn in by the fantasy she was able to create and the way she was able to write these fully-formed female characters and give them so much space on-screen.The chemistry between Meg Ryan and Tom Hanks was paralleled. I was far too young to understand the film as anything other than enemies-to-lovers (not a commentary on neoliberalism). It didn't matter that Joe Fox was running Kathleen Kelly out of business. I still swooned. To this day it is my favorite rom-com despite knowing everything I know about it now. I still melt when I hear Joe basically propose to Kathleen and then ask her why she won't forgive him. Once he delivers the line, "Oh how I wish you would," it's always instant chills for me.

How is Nora different from other writers? and filmmakers? / What makes Nora Ephron so special?

Nora's voice was so distinct, so acerbic and witty, and was able to seamlessly weave memoir into her writing. While she could be self-indulgent at times, her writing was so undeniably charming that it could easily make you forget. And she could impressively eviscerate you with her words. Given, it was a different time when Nora was in Hollywood, but her ability to center strong female characters in her work at the time made many women feel seen.

Can there ever be another Nora Ephron?

I have racked my brain with this question time and again and had endless discussions with other Noraphiles and rom-com fans. I don't think there ever will be one. Not only was her writing so singular but the worlds she created were often so rooted in detail specific to her/her favorite places like Cafe Luxembourg, Cafe Lalo, and even aesthetic inspiration from her favorite apartment at The Apthorp. Her voice, as it was, is irreplaceable. Though many have tried, no one will be another Nora.

That said, Nora's work was progressive at the time (with some problematic moments), but quite centered around white people/white women of a certain demographic. In the years since it's been refreshing and necessary to see people of color represented behind the camera and on-screen.

Can you describe what makes a Nora complex female character?

Nora's characters are refreshingly unpolished, messy, ambitious women who are unapologetic about their desires. There's an inherent authenticity to them that has made characters like Sally, Marie or Kathleen so familiar — like they could be the viewers' friends. For many women, they saw themselves in Nora's female protagonists who were often facets of Nora herself — the specificity of ordering a meal, the relatable quirks, the defiance. It was validating.

How did Nora influence culture then and now?

Beyond the obvious — writing and filmmaking — Nora's influence on culture seems practically endless. Through her passion for specific recipes, restaurants and dinner parties, she became an elite tastemaker of the culinary arts. (She even notoriously had a special cookbook she only gave to her friends!) And her recipes have lived on. Her Heartburn vinaigrette is a go-to recipe for a reason! She's also had an indelible impact on style — the way we ring in Nora Ephron fall each year with chunky knit sweaters, cardigans and boxy blazers.

How would you define The Nora Ephron Aesthetic?

The Nora Ephron aesthetic is peak-cozy with lived in comforts and brimming with frilly flourishes and timeless decor. It's semi-aspirational yet attainable. Nobody did rom-com aesthetic like Nora — except Nancy Meyers. Meyers, of course, is known for her very clean aesthetic and jaw-dropping kitchens. But within Nora's aesthetic, it feels like it could be your sofa, your wagon wheel table, your colorful quilted bedspread.

How would you describe rom-coms pre and post-Nora?

Before Nora Ephron, rom-coms were quite formulaic — boy meets girl, they have a conflict and they find a happily ever after — and with a rather predictable sense of humor. But Nora ushered in the golden age of rom-coms. She knew how to not only write these multi-dimensional characters (particularly women), but how to shake up what conflict/plot looked like with epistolary storytelling, parallel timelines and asking existential questions (i.e. Can men and women really be friends? Can romance trump capitalism?) Post-Nora, rom-coms — particularly high school rom-coms had a bit of a boom in the late '90s/early '00s, but they largely disappeared from the mainstream for a few years. Yes, there were rom-coms still, but studios weren't putting money into them like they used to. I think a bigger shift happened in 2018 when "Crazy Rich Asians" took over the culture. Suddenly, it was not only obvious there was a demand for rom-coms — but they could be box-office hits, too. We've since seen some more success with "The Idea of You" and "Anyone But You," but often rom-coms are direct-to-streaming. (Personally, I think Amazon's biggest mistake was not putting "The Idea of You" in theaters.) There's still a lack of prioritization of these kinds of films in theaters.

What would Hollywood look like now if Nora never existed?

Well, for one I think we'd have far fewer rom-coms than we already have, but there would be even less representation of female filmmakers (and this remains a struggle for them now and particularly for people of color.) I think that we might not see films having as many frank conversations about sexuality or even having it drive the plot. The orgasm scene became an international topic of discussion for a reason.

Why hasn't anyone made a good rom-com since Nora?

Okay, so I don't think there haven't been any good rom-coms since Nora, but I think her work was unparalleled. And though writers and directors have tried with their own updated, twisted version of very Nora stories — "Sleeping with Other People," "Dating in New York," "I Want You Back" — it's just not possible to recreate the magic of Nora's dialogue and directorial aesthetic. If we compare all rom-coms to Nora's we will inevitably always be disappointed. But have there been rom-coms that are good since? There have been. But they largely not very Nora. I'm a huge Jenny Han fan — she was a huge admirer of Nora's — and I absolutely adore everything she does. I adore the "To All the Boys" franchise, "The Summer I Turned Pretty" and "XO Kitty," but it's targeted to a younger audience. The chemistry in The Idea of You is something I wouldn't stop talking about for months (I love that movie!) I do think "Crazy Rich Asians," which was a lot of fun (and I still want that sequel starring Gemma Chan!) really helped studios find interest in the rom-coms again because it proved that not only did people want to go to the theater to see rom-coms but they wanted to see diverse filmmakers and actors making them. This is my long-winded way of saying, they're still enjoyable, and some are great, but they're not Nora.

What's the importance of a rom-com? What's a common misconception?

Rom-coms inspire, they let us dream and perhaps most importantly, they help us escape. There is a lot of shit happening in the world, in this country. Rom-coms have been a haven for people who are looking for hope — for something aspirational in a world where people's rights are being taken away or when we're on the brink of fascism. They're culturally necessary, especially during times of crisis. And these movies are for everyone.I think a common misconception is that rom-coms are chick flicks. You would think after decades of rom-coms they'd stop being written off like that, but alas. In my opinion, there is a greater appreciation for them but there's still a cohort that harbors that reductive point of view. Rom-coms have always been about exploring the depth of human emotion, and I often think, particularly for certain men, they struggle to see that.

What's her legacy?

Nora's legacy is as complex as her female heroines — as a feminist trailblazer, a director, a writer, an epic dinner party host, a mentor to unexpected actors. But on a macro level, it's something different. When I was watching the Martha Stewart documentary, and they referenced her as the original influencer I immediately thought how wild it is that Nora feels like she never left because she is an influencer. Every autumn, a new generation learns about Nora Ephron's fall through Instagram or TikTok. Still, I always come back to Rachel Syme's piece "The Nora We Always Forget" because we conflate Nora with the sentimentality that permeates in her rom-coms when in actuality she was tough, but her writing could be "acidic." She could burn you with her words. Over time, we've just come to romanticize Nora because of her rom-coms.

This scene gets me every time. To Nora 🥂